"Yeah, well. Right now I ain't so sure you're doin' anythin' with an apology besides bein' exactly what you think other people expect from you," Sam grumbles. "So we're gonna work on cuttin' out any habits that serve that purpose directly."
"It's more useful as something they don't expect. They often appreciate an apology more if they believe it comes at some cost." It's not that Armand doesn't have pride, of a sort. It can help to project that, so people can get the pleasure of thinking they've broken something.
Sam can't help the surprised scowl. "Hell, Armand, that's way worse! That's just actively manipulatin' folks into forgivin' you when you've hurt 'em. They deserve better than that, an' frankly speakin', so do you!"
"Armand, the cost of apologisin' is the fact you already done somethin' to hurt 'em."
As the kids say, this is some wild shit.
"An' there's a difference between goin' through the motions - apologising to make sure you get in less trouble fer hurtin' 'em - and actually meaning what you say. If yer gonna weaponise yer apology to make folks pity you, instead of sayin' 'em cos you want to do better by 'em, then I still don't want you sayin' 'em."
"There are those who say a vampire should not apologize, but I do not enjoy fighting." Which is something of an alternative to fighting, back home. "Things are different here."
It's not as if he's looking for a way he can stick to Sam's words while also apologizing to someone.
"Sometimes you just gotta own up t'the fact that yer actions made someone else feel like shit, Armand," he says, firm but not unkind. "An' sometimes that means gettin' into a fight an' losin' 'cos you done fucked up. Feelin' guilt ain't the end of the world."
Armand smiles slightly. His smile often isn't an indication of happiness, but then, he's rarely happy. Sam thinks he doesn't feel guilt? Armand wishes that was true. He doesn't know who he'd be, but people rarely like him as he is.
"Then yer probably aware that just 'cos we're feelin' things really intensely, that doesn't necessarily mean that those feelings're actually affectin' reality."
"That ain't their feelings affectin' reality, that's them lettin' their feelings get the better of 'em an' usin' that as justification fer doin' those things," he corrects. "When folks can learn to identify what they're feelin' first, an' work through their emotional reasonin' without losin' themselves in it like a panic attack, then they don't necessarily go an' make decisions like that."
He waves a hand. "I do not speak here of what you name justification after the fact. I mean those who know what they feel and go forth to shape the reality around them to fit." It's a display he scorns, it's a power he respects. "They know what they want." It's not jealousy and he can't allow it to be yearning, so it's just matter-of-fact.
"No, though it can be true. There men who only care about things that call to their feelings. They led a life where all that is real are the things they care about, as long as they receive appropriate attention in return. All becomes part of themself, and so is granted worth through that."
"Yeah, well. Men doin' all a' that without givin' a shit about all the people they're hurtin' that way're called narcissists," he comments dryly. "And all it means is they're tryin' t'fill all the hollow parts a' themselves with extrinsic praise an' doodahs instead of workin' on themselves."
"Yes, I know the word. I spent a portion of my life with actors." So he can say that he doesn't find all narcissists attractive, just the ones that can carry it off.
He gives a light snort before he can help himself.
"Right, but you also spent a lot a' time with narcissists," he points out. "It's one a' them Venn diagrams. An' I can see how bein' around them all the time had a real dire affect on you, Armand. You spendin' all that time an' effort tryin' to please someone that wasn't capable of lovin' you back properly. You were just another shiny toy in his collection, so long as you played the role he forced on you."
He raises his eyes to look more directly at Sam again.
"What does it mean to love someone properly. I don't have the fortune of having felt love for many people or things. In five hundred and fourteen years, there have been less of a handful." He suspects it's a coldness in him. He doesn't burn as the ones he loves have done. "I did not learn to love the world, even before. Not as my master tried to teach me."
His expression falls a little, sympathetic with Armand's latest revealed plight.
"It means treatin' someone like a person, Armand," he says gently. "An independent bein' with their own wants an' ideas, who doesn't do anythin' 'cept what they want to. And if they care about you, what they'll wanna do is be with you. You can't go forcin' them to be anythin' else."
"My master wanted to be with me." It's not a claim he can make about his other relationships, not when they had ended with abandonment. And he hadn't forced them to stay, when they decided to walk away. Only one person hadn't chosen to leave, but had been taken by outside forces.
"Yer master wanted you t'be with him," he corrects gently. "That ain't the same thing. That's just tellin' yerself somethin' that makes it hurt less that he didn't care what you thought."
He was still wanted, which is the important part when he's feeling rejected by the world. "He did care what I thought." And before there can be any unreasonable questions about how he might 'know': "He could look into my mind. He knew I was not like the others, who left."
He looks down at his hands for a moment.
"When you have such a gift... He wanted to be wanted." He had always understood that, even before he was granted the same gifts. Yes, perhaps there were reasons that Amadeo had clung to him (as Armand would cling to other rituals) in ways that others had not, but why does that make it any less true? You can take advantage of circumstances without it affecting your feelings.
"If find it unlikely it was all the time." Both as a matter of practicality and because of what Armand knows about reading minds.
"It's not a straightforward gift. There are many who shun it, especially when it comes to mortals rather than as communicating with a fellow vampire. Surface thoughts are one thing, but to go deep into someone's mind..." There are those who find it disturbing to let so much in and that limits the gift. ...Armand's unusually talented.
He sighs, with a faint air of nostalgia. "But, yes, he spent time reading my thoughts. It could make things simpler." And made Armand very good at controlling what he thinks, which is a useful gift!
"You think there's anything we can do t'help make you feel less like anyone's gonna be stickin' their fingers back in yer brain?" He tilts his head a little. "We could sure ask the Admiral to give you somethin' t'keep other folks out of yer mind."
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momijizukamori
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 08:04 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 08:07 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 08:17 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 08:24 am (UTC)"If they really feel hurt, they usually don't really forgive me. It can still make them feel better in the moment."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 09:38 am (UTC)As the kids say, this is some wild shit.
"An' there's a difference between goin' through the motions - apologising to make sure you get in less trouble fer hurtin' 'em - and actually meaning what you say. If yer gonna weaponise yer apology to make folks pity you, instead of sayin' 'em cos you want to do better by 'em, then I still don't want you sayin' 'em."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 05:18 pm (UTC)"There are those who say a vampire should not apologize, but I do not enjoy fighting." Which is something of an alternative to fighting, back home. "Things are different here."
It's not as if he's looking for a way he can stick to Sam's words while also apologizing to someone.
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 11:20 pm (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-25 11:27 pm (UTC)"I'm well aware of that, Mr. Walls."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 02:02 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 02:15 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 03:14 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 03:23 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:04 am (UTC)"Armand, are you treatin' peoples feelings an' the things they care about like they're the same thing?"
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:11 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:30 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:34 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:37 am (UTC)"Right, but you also spent a lot a' time with narcissists," he points out. "It's one a' them Venn diagrams. An' I can see how bein' around them all the time had a real dire affect on you, Armand. You spendin' all that time an' effort tryin' to please someone that wasn't capable of lovin' you back properly. You were just another shiny toy in his collection, so long as you played the role he forced on you."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 04:53 am (UTC)"What does it mean to love someone properly. I don't have the fortune of having felt love for many people or things. In five hundred and fourteen years, there have been less of a handful." He suspects it's a coldness in him. He doesn't burn as the ones he loves have done. "I did not learn to love the world, even before. Not as my master tried to teach me."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 05:00 am (UTC)"It means treatin' someone like a person, Armand," he says gently. "An independent bein' with their own wants an' ideas, who doesn't do anythin' 'cept what they want to. And if they care about you, what they'll wanna do is be with you. You can't go forcin' them to be anythin' else."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 05:04 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 05:06 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 05:37 am (UTC)He looks down at his hands for a moment.
"When you have such a gift... He wanted to be wanted." He had always understood that, even before he was granted the same gifts. Yes, perhaps there were reasons that Amadeo had clung to him (as Armand would cling to other rituals) in ways that others had not, but why does that make it any less true? You can take advantage of circumstances without it affecting your feelings.
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 06:15 am (UTC)"Pardner, if he was in your head readin' yer thoughts all the time, no wonder you can't think anythin' out loud anymore."
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 06:29 am (UTC)"It's not a straightforward gift. There are many who shun it, especially when it comes to mortals rather than as communicating with a fellow vampire. Surface thoughts are one thing, but to go deep into someone's mind..." There are those who find it disturbing to let so much in and that limits the gift. ...Armand's unusually talented.
He sighs, with a faint air of nostalgia. "But, yes, he spent time reading my thoughts. It could make things simpler." And made Armand very good at controlling what he thinks, which is a useful gift!
Re: After Vash leaves
Date: 2025-06-26 07:28 am (UTC)Re: After Vash leaves
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